Rogue 101 ...finally

Moderator: Officers

Rogue 101 ...finally

Postby Scoundrell » Wed May 19, 2010 1:48 pm

This initial writeup is a mix of stuff I've found all over the web with alot of my own personal experience of playing Scoundrell since Sep 2002. I'll edit the post as I can. If you see something that should be in here, feel free to jog my memory

Rogues are a class that are heavily dependant on grouping. It is a waste of time to solo a Rogue since they are meant to be behind the mob to Backstab (BS). Rogue DPS optimization is a fine art. Our DPS is entirely position based and peaks when the mob back is readily and constantly available. Nothing is more frustrating for a Rogue than to have a mob ping ponging all over. Things work better when there is a Rog only channel or at least a DPS channel for all Rog, Monk, Ranger, Ber and Bst for DPS coordination so that it does not clutter /rsay. Wiz and Mag are DPS from nukes/dots which would have its own requirements. TF does not use one that I know of. I am not a fan of Voip/Ventrillo/EQ Voice.

Links of interest:
- Safehouse Rogue Forum. You should be smacked constantly if you do not visit this site.
- Allakhazam class description for Rogues
- New Poison Recipes
- EQ Traders traditional recipes to Make Poison

Evade is how a Rogue sheds agro to help the mob stay on the tank and not spin around to chew on the Rogue. A successfull Evade will turn off your attack, hit hide (dumping 300 agro counters), and attack on. Spamming evade will lower DPS since you are not attacking for that fraction of a second every time you hit it so... don't Evade unless the tank is having trouble keeping agro off you. Other folks can tell if a Rogue is evading buy the flash of the invis brackets () around the Rogues name for the instant he his hidden. There is no ready made skill for this so you need make yourself a hotbutton.
When you hit your "Evade" hotbutton, it should do something like this:
/attack off
/do 6 (Pickpocket)
/do 2 (Hide)
/attack on
/autoinventory (to dump what you ganked into your inventory so it doesnt hang on your cursor)

/do # = the ability found in your Combat Abilities window. You can edit this slightly so you can Pickpocket, Beg, Intimidate (not recommended!), etc.

If you are at a lull in a raid battle and waiting for next call to re-engage the mob then you may as well shed some agro while you are just standing around... hide, unhide, hide, etc. You'll shed agro

MUST HAVE AAs and Discs:
Bare minimum = Shroud of Stealth and Escape
Recommended = Shroud of Stealth and Escape + Rogues Fury, Frenzied Stabbing, Envenomed Blades

OFFENSIVE AAs and Discs:
Rogues Fury, Frenzied Stabbing, Triple BS, Sinister Strikes, Flurry, Combat Fury, Veterans Wrath, Fundament of Combat: 2nd Spire... there are tons now!

Combat Agility, Combat Stability, Delay Death, Sleight of Hand, Subtle Blows, General Sturdiness, Hastened Stealth, Double Riposte, etc

Dead Rogues do no DPS. Get off your high horse of insisting DPS is all that matters and get yourself some CA/CS along the way to help mitigate the agro you will pull off the tank thats more interested in watching American Idol than keeping agro. Evade does not always work and it is nice to be able to live when it does fail. You need to be able to tank in a pinch if the tank dies from plowing rampage when mob is in its last 10%. Hit Counter Attack disc and you will have maybe 20 seconds of glorious tanking where you will riposte every hit that lands on you. If after this it looks like you have no other means of staying upright, turn off attack, hit Escape, and SoS

- Definitions:
Rogue’s Fury – Damage Mod, Hundred Hands, minimum damage mod, chance to hit. 30 Seconds. Very important AA.
Frenzied Stabbing – Skill reduction timer for Backstab. Makes your backstab button refresh *much* faster. Very important discipline.
Assassin’s – Makes all your attacks land much harder, and significantly increases your minimum damage.
Twisted Chance – Increases your chance to crit and to hit.
Daggerlunge – (Requires min Void F access to aquire) Your next backstab attempt will hit very hard. You must be SoS prior to activating this ability and hitting the mob, doing any other action, having SoS removed, being hit with anything, etc will stop this attack from happening. It’s an opener attack and is what helps you to start off a fight with a bang.
Third Spire – Augments your Crit damage and Crit percentage for 1.5 minutes. NOTE: 2nd Spire parses better for most Rogues. 3rd Spire parses better if weapons are high quality like UF raid and high DPS AA count. 3rd Spire augments your crits so you need to have high innate crit chance to make it shine. 2nd Spire affects all hits.
Glyph of Cataclysm – Makes your Crits land even harder.
Thief’s Eyes – A 90 second duration buff that modifies your chance to hit slightly. Affects your whole group.
Intensity of the Resolute – (7th year vet) Medium level damage modifier that lasts for 1 minute. Due to stacking conflicts, this is typically used by rogues after their primary burn.
Envenomed Blade - A 2 minute buff AA on a 10 minute reuse timer. Allows you to proc a relatively significant poison with a DD and DoT component.
Pinpoint Vitals – A debuff that makes the mob take additional damage every time it is struck.
Bleed – Mild damage over time ability.
Twisted Shank – Another mild damge over time ability.
Sleight of Hands - Reduces your aggro generated for a short duration.

- Rogue candy = Sham that remembers to click their 2.0 and a Bard for overhaste in group + Berserkers avail to do a Warcry chain for fight duration.

- Maximizing Rogue DPS is ALL about timing. It is something that consumes some Rogues in that they are typically expected to live at the top of any Parse. Know that not every mob is a candidate for parsing a class whose DPS is largely based on maintaining a fixed position behind the mob. A mob that would otherwise move around that can be pinned against a wall or corner will help positional based DPS.
- It helps quite abit to know when a Shaman will hit their 2.0. Coordination is sometimes needed to ensure this happens. Some hit it soon as tank calls assist, some call it after mob goes down xx%, some dont call it at all... having an audio trigger built that goes off upon Sham and Bard 2.0 click can serve as the trigger to hit a burn sequence.

Sham 2.0 click = you are blessed with the gift of the ruchu (refresh 3 mins)
Bard 2.0 click = You are filled with the spirit of Vesagran (refresh 3 mins)

- Pinpoint Vulnerabilty/Vitals (assuming it actually lands) provides 6, 8, or 10% boost to all Backstabs work for ALL Rogues. Effect lasts 30 seconds and refresh is 2 minutes. Theoretically, this means 4 Rogues can provide 6, 8, or 10% boost to all Backstabs indefinantly. Since the majority of Rogue DPS comes from BS, this is worthy of looking at. Coordination is required = Have an order to perfrom Pinpoint + each Rog has 2 audio triggers (1 for Pinpoint success, 1 for fail... mine are set). All will then hear the succeed of Pinpoint but only the casting Rog hears the fail. Succeed means next Rog waits 30 sec to do his Pipoint. Fail means let next Rog know it failed so they do theirs now. There may be a trigger that can be set to a Pinpoint Fading but I think only the casting Rogue would get it. Its disappointing to hear 3 different successful Pinpoint triggers go off within the first 10 seconds of a mob being engaged.

Success = has had their vulnerabilities pinpointed
Fail = avoided your pinpoint

MUST HAVE BUFFS: More info soon...
- Never use Brells since it blocks some Ranger spells.
- Sham = Unity, Champion, Talisman of Panther/Cougar/Lynx
- Enc = Haste of Eradien
- Ranger = Yowl of Predator and Strength of the Tracker

- LONG FIGHTS (like Pollarax) = All this is typically hit as close to same time as possible unless otherwise noted.
1. Opening poke/Thieves Eyes (tie TE to a hot button to perfrom TE when you BS)
2. Attack on and wait for Sham 2.0 (prior coordination helps)
3. Rog 2.0
4. Pinpoint
5. Rogues Fury
6. Frenzied
7. Envenomed Blades (900dd proc that lasts 2 minutes)
8. Sleight of Hands (to reduce all that agro)
... wait for Frenzied to fade
9. Assault (on same timer as Daggerlunge)
10. Intensity of the Resolute (7th year Vet),
11. Alternate between Kinesthetics and Deadly Precision which have a 5 min refresh till mob is dead.
NOTES: Sometimes RF/Frenzied will become available again towards fight end. I tend to time the expectation of the next Sham 2.0 click with the refresh of my own 2.0. Reclick things as they became available again. Try to time Sham 2.0 with your own.

Same as short fight except use Assassin's Disc since on same timer as Kinesthetics but more powerful

- Docent of Toxicity. I would love to find Necros that actually would like to have Docent of Toxicity put on them for a poison based nuke/burn. In the Rogue community, this disc is largely regarded as useless. My experience with it has been disappointing in that every Necro I cast it on said it really did not make a noticeable increase in their poision based spell damage. Once again though, I dont mind doing this if they want it. This can be set to chain if other Rogues are willing to participate in coordination.

- MUST HAVE = If you don't already have it, get the Rogue epic 2.0
Nightshade, Blade of Entropy
Effect: Deceiver's Blight
1: Triple Backstab (45)
4: Add Proc: Deceiver's Blight Strike
Effect: Tempest Fury
1: Decrease Reuse Timer by 480.00 sec
2: Limit: Spell (Duelist Discipline allowed)

Even after all the time passed since the 2.0 quests came out, the Rog 2.0 is still outstanding used as a DPS clicky. I will dare say a Rogue that does not have or does not want their 2.0 is either misinformed about what it can actually do for them or they lack the focus needed to play a pure DPS class.

- Ovehaste items = The 8% ones are not too hard to come by. 10%+ will likely mean a raid item that will cost plenty of DKP.
- Shrink = Earring of Diminutiveness, Wand of Imperceptibility
- Levitation = Swiftmantle
- Rogue Illusions list that is fairly old but should keep any new Rogue thoroughly occupied for quite awhile.

To make your own custom audio triggers, visit AT&T Labs. Save the audio files in C:\Program Files\EverQuest\AudioTriggers\default (or wherever you saved EQ. Can also make a new folder to load for a new event but I found it easier to just throw everything in default.

Personal Tribute is a fantastic way to give yourself a lil edge on a few stats and/or abilities. You'll find the Tribute Master in the hometown of your char. Go farm the oldworld zone nameds for easy Trib items. A detailed description of what is available and what they do is found at this "Tribute desciption" on Allakhazam which also includes values for many items. Primordial Driftwood Compound Bow is a good one you can find in the Baz and tribs for 50k points per bow turnin.

I use:
- Bukwark of Honor for extra AC
- Eyes of Hunter for extra accuracy
- Fury of Combat for extra chance to flurry
- Replenish Body for extra regen

Advice reposts from external sites:
- Sinc (from Triality) wrote on a Safehouse thread regarding new Rogue setup:
Your first AAs, in order, should be: Run3, Escape, SoS, Run5.

Next, the following statements are intended as a general rule, but is not 100% accurate: Older AAs tend to have more bang for the buck then newer ones. The first ranks of an AA line are much more valuable then the last ranks of an AA line. (Especially the first 3 ranks of any extended AA line.)

With that said, you can take one of three AA paths. Pure dps, pure defense, some sort of balance. Most will tell you to go pure dps, I prefer to advocate striking at least a little balance.

The lists. A few AAs fall into multiple lists, most notably Physical Enhancement. (Which should be near the top of any rogue's list of things to get.) Note, AAs which have no affect on combat at all are not listed. Get those whenever it feels right for you. Also note, that since I tend to advocate getting more defense-oriented AAs then many rogues, some of my lists, especially the 'catch-all' will reflect that bias.

Catch-all AA, in my opinion of decreasing value: Natural Durability, Physical Enhancement, Planar Power, Nimble Evasion, Mystical Attunement, General Sturdiness, Stealthy Getaway, Innate Regen, Natural Healing, Energetic Attunement, Delay Death, Discordant Defiance, Hasty Exit, Heightened Endurance, Quick Draw, Battle Ready, Concentration, Tumble, Purge Poison

The pure dps AAs: Ambidexterity, Triple Backstab, Combat Fury, Rogue's Fury, Chaotic Stab, Sinister Strikes, Vet's Wrath, Enhanced Aggression, Precise Strikes, Envenomed Blades, Seized Opportunity, Precision, Weapon Affinity, Ingenuity, Burst of Power, Anatomy, Finishing Blow, Killing Spree, Virulent Venom (Does NOT affect EB!), Twisted Shank, Rake's Deadly Aim, Rake's Powerful Aim

The defensives: Combat Agility, Combat Stability, Hastened Stealth, Nimble Evasion, Slippery Attacks, Shielding Resistance, Double Riposte, Knave's Return Strike, Delay Death, Stealthy Getaway, Hasty Exit, Dirty Fighting, Discordant Defiance, Purge Poison, Tumble, Fear Resistance, Nerves of Steel, Shield Block

A few notes about the defensives. While I listed CA and CS first, the importance of Hastened Stealth cannot possibly be overstated. It lets you evade more often. Get CA/CS3, then max HS, then go back to CA/CS. Also on CA/CS, while everyone will tell you (and I agree with) that getting missed entirely is better then getting hit for slightly less, the difference in damage taken by a rogue with CS 23 and one with CS 3 is dramatic.

If I were rebuilding Sincro today, from the ground up (with the intention of being a raid rogue, who spends a lot of off-hour time soloing): Run3, Escape, SoS, Run5, Ambi, ND, CA3, CS3, PE, HStealth, TripBS, PlanPow, ComFury, RogFury, ChaoStab, SeizedOpp3, finish CA/CS, finish SeizedOpp, SinStrike, VetWrath, DoubRipo, KRS, EnAgg, PrecStrike, E-Blades, NimEv, WeapAff, Ing, BoPow, SlippAtt, ShResi, MysAtt, GenStur, Stealthy, all remaing dps until Vir Ven, all remaining defensives until Tumble, all remaining catch-alls, finish Defense, finish Offense.

A few non-combat AAs would also be sprinkled in there. For quite a few of these AAs, I would get the first few of one, then the first few of the next one, then finish off the previous one, etc. It is possible that a few lower priority items, like Mystical Attuning would have to be gotten piece-meal as buff slots became an issue (the more clickies you have, the more buff slots you need...) I might be forced to get Dirty Fighting much earlier too, due to guild demands.

EDIT 6 July 10: edited info for 2nd and 3rd Spire use
User avatar
Posts: 92
Joined: Sun Nov 02, 2008 2:31 pm
Location: Elk Plain, WA

Return to Class Specific Discussion

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest